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What is Joriki?

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What is Joriki?

Postby Jage on Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:11 am

What is Joriki. How can we build up our Joriki.

JORIKI is the power or strength which arises when the mind has been unified and brought to one-pointedness in Zazen concentration. This is more than the ability to concentrate in the usual sense of the word. It is a dynamic power which, once mobilized, enables us even in the most sudden and unexpected situations to act instantly, without pausing to collect out wits, and in a manner wholly appropriate to the circumstances. One who has developed Joriki is no longer a slave to his passions, neither is he at the mercy of his environment. Always in command of both himself and the circumstances of his life, he is able to move with perfect freedom and equanimity. The cultivation of certain supranormal powers is also made possible by Joriki, as is the state in which the mind becomes like clear, still water.
http://the-wanderling.com/joriki.html
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Re: What is Joriki?

Postby klqv on Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:00 pm

not heard that term before - though it's not a strange neologism http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=jorki& ... 80&bih=612

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Re: What is Joriki?

Postby Gregory Wonderwheel on Tue Jun 05, 2012 11:50 pm

The Wanderling is always good for that kind of unique definition. There are many ways to look at "joriki." In my own uniqueness, I prefer to see joriki as the inherent power that energizes the universe from atomic vibration, to molecular bonding, to cellular metabolism, to the heartbeat, to a star's nuclear reactions.


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Re: What is Joriki?

Postby Meido on Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:44 am

In a text written by one of our line's teachers, joriki [定力] is defined as "physical/spiritual energy generated by strong concentration". He also had the following to say about it (and includes an interesting story to boot):

If we treat things as they should be without being upset by our surroundings and without letting our minds be dispersed by them under any circumstances, we may be called masters wherever we may be. This operating power of our minds is called joriki. It is, in short, the operation of no-self. Master Sogaku writes about it as follows, "The right mind operates at each time and in each place to make you take the right attitude and act properly without deviating from the Way."

Master Yamada Mumon, in his lecture on Zazen-gi, explained the operation of the power of samadhi by telling the following anecdote about Master Toko Shin'etsu (Tung-kao Hsin-yueh), who came to Japan from China in the Ming dynasty. There was a Lord [daimyo] who learned Zen from Toko Shin'etsu. One New Year's Day, when the Master visited [this] Lord Mitsukuni to exchange New Year's greetings with him, Lord Mitsukuni said, "It is New Year's Day today. Please let me present you with a cup of sake (rice wine)." So saying, Lord Mitsukuni took out a large cup and had one of his servants fill it with sake to the brim [and handed it to the Master]. Just then, "Bang!" rang out from the adjoining room. A gun had been purposely loaded beforehand with a blank cartridge and then fired. The Zen Master, without showing the slightest dismay, drank up the sake from the cup in calm silence. Lord Mitsukuni acted embarrassed and apologized, "It is customary to fire a gun in a warrior's house. Please excuse me." The Master returned the cup to Lord Mitsukuni in silent acknowledgement of his apology.

When the servant filled Lord Mitsukuni's cup with sake, the Zen Master suddenly gave one loud shout, "Katz!" Taken by surprise, Lord Mitsukuni spilled his sake in spite of himself. The Zen Master said in apparent seriousness, "It is customary for Zen men to give a single shout of 'Katz!' Please excuse me."

After relating the preceding anecdote, Master Mumon said, "The power of such a Zen master is called joriki." It was this power that Master Toko Shin'etsu displayed automatically and without any preparation beforehand. It was the same as the spontaneous action of his selfless self. In other words, it must have been the very power of the one who was the master of everything wherever he might be.

This joriki which anchors itself in samadhi and which thoroughly identifies itself with all matters of daily living, is, needless to say, a precious thing that comes from sitting hard in the midst of quiet. Once that state is achieved, it is protected like carrying a baby. One must not forget that its working is the result of hard training in everything one does. Therefore, the attitude that one takes when standing up after sitting in meditation is very important - one must maintain the intensity of concentration that was achieved during meditation.

[From An Introduction to Zen Training (Sanzen Nyumon) - Omori Sogen}


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Re: What is Joriki?

Postby Seeker242 on Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:40 pm

Jage wrote:What is Joriki. How can we build up our Joriki.

JORIKI is the power or strength which arises when the mind has been unified and brought to one-pointedness in Zazen concentration. This is more than the ability to concentrate in the usual sense of the word. It is a dynamic power which, once mobilized, enables us even in the most sudden and unexpected situations to act instantly, without pausing to collect out wits, and in a manner wholly appropriate to the circumstances. One who has developed Joriki is no longer a slave to his passions, neither is he at the mercy of his environment. Always in command of both himself and the circumstances of his life, he is able to move with perfect freedom and equanimity. The cultivation of certain supranormal powers is also made possible by Joriki, as is the state in which the mind becomes like clear, still water.
http://the-wanderling.com/joriki.html


What is Joriki? JORIKI is the power or strength which arises when the mind has been unified and brought to one-pointedness in Zazen.

How can we build up our Joriki? By doing Zazen it seems. :)
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Re: What is Joriki?

Postby Huifeng on Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:24 pm

In Chinese, 定力 (dingli) just basically means "stability strength", the actual ability, strength or power to remain stable, undisturbed, focused, etc. Can be with reference to a specific practice or state, or just in general circumstances. Maybe English "power of concentration" would be close, too.

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Re: What is Joriki?

Postby Jage on Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:27 am

So we build up Joriki by doing zazen. For how many years? How do we know we have Joriki.
Is it a mental energy? Is it physical energy? How does Joriki manifest. How can it be tested?

Can you tell if a person if he has joriki.
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Re: What is Joriki?

Postby Denko on Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:54 am

Joriki: Power of/from 'concentration' (i.e. 'good' zazen) is a very good way of translating it. So; joriki developes (more or less) automatically from zazen. Thereby our practice becomes stabilized and strong.

HOWEVER: Joriki is not a goal in itself, and need to be superseded by true mature insight, which is independent of joriki and/or anything else (nirvana is not a struggle). There is a clear danger in overly depending on joriki - and joriki tend to blind us from our 'flaws' (for instance flaws in our insight). There are, and have been, zen monks - and even masters - that have mistaken the strong, clear mind of joriki for actual insight. & this I see as the dangerous side of zen - you can apparently have great zen masters, that I would not consider Buddhist masters - for instance my own former teacher, Eido Shimano.
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Re: What is Joriki?

Postby fukasetsu on Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:22 am

Jage wrote:So Joriki is powerful but dangerous?

Joriki is merely energy and only applies on the level of mind, hence joriki or no joriki does not matter, there is obviously the danger of attaching to that which happens on the level of mind simply because their is still identification to the body-mind, those who beyond doubt have realized they are not the "mind" have no interest in its content.

What did Shimano do. Is it forbidden for a Zen Master to have love affairs.

There is not a single authority in this world who can forbid you anything, Buddhism included, though sensual desire only happens to those still attached to the world of appearances and is trapped in the identification process [body/mind], getting "dharma transmission" does not mean one is aware of the true nature of things.
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Re: What is Joriki?

Postby Jage on Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:18 pm

fukasetsu wrote:
Jage wrote:So Joriki is powerful but dangerous?

Joriki is merely energy and only applies on the level of mind, hence joriki or no joriki does not matter, there is obviously the danger of attaching to that which happens on the level of mind simply because their is still identification to the body-mind, those who beyond doubt have realized they are not the "mind" have no interest in its content.

fukasetsu sir: is that your experience or just your theory?
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Re: What is Joriki?

Postby klqv on Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:56 pm

i think we can identify ourselves as something. nothing substantial or uncaused or persisting from moment to moment, but still something.
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Re: What is Joriki?

Postby klqv on Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:21 pm

i, sort of, understand when people say that they don't exist.

but also they see and feel and speak and act and so on. if they don't exist how do they do any of those things? i don't think that certain words like "me" must carry particular metaphysical baggage - like substances and so on; after-all words mean whatever we want them to!
it seems misleading to say that the word cannot be used whatsoever - unless you are of the opinion that nothing exists. what's to stop me using the word "me" to describe what actually is going on - all the ephemeral and transient skandhas and so on?


maybe someone can explain :) ?
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Re: What is Joriki?

Postby Jage on Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:33 pm

Does it mean that if you have Joriki you have peace of mind. Is peace of mind a the gauge of your Joriki. If you have perfect peace of mind the more joriki you have?
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Re: What is Joriki?

Postby klqv on Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:13 pm

hi jage,

i'm no kind of advanced practitioner, but if joriki is energy maybe it means something like effort? just a question really.


i hope this is not too much of a tangent - to the extent of being off topic... but i was wondering last night before and after a short attempt at meditation, whether one of the goals of practice is just giving onself completely to help others give themselves completely to things. i mean, that isn't really effort but effort would be in the right sort of direction. diffiuclt to entirely state what i mean by that but maybe some here will have an idea :dance:
i don't mean self identification per se. but there's some existential literature that talks about choosing with the "true self". roughly something like that anyway. i don't know that thet term can even be translated into buddhism, which would probably make a fool of me and my idea that it's an important goal of the buddha's... not giving oneself to some kind of higher power but maybe a desire that is entirely non attached but somehow is what normal people associate with attachment. not sure i can explain more fully, but even having the sense that i was dedicated to the welfare of others that much, would be pretty phenomenal.

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Re: What is Joriki?

Postby Jage on Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:54 am

Can you build up joriki with the ego. Is the actions of the ego a leakage of joriki?
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Re: What is Joriki?

Postby klqv on Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:09 am

Jage wrote:Can you build up joriki with the ego. Is the actions of the ego a leakage of joriki?

i'm not sure if you're addressing me or not :lol2:


if so, well i don't really know what the word "ego" means. maybe selfishness? i don't think that's a viable goal in this tradition... if you mean atman i'm afriad that i haven't read much hinduism.
if you mean ego-centrism again i'm far from sure that's a good goal to have. i guess it depends on which traditions you are drawing from to include in 'joriki'? not sure why anyone would want to expand ego centrism, unless somehow doing so would make it go pop like a balloon. sure, self awareness is a positive thing, but too much is probably counter productive!

i suppose it's oneself doing the sitting *shrug*.
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Re: What is Joriki?

Postby fukasetsu on Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:10 am

Jage wrote:fukasetsu sir: is that your experience or just your theory?


That's not how you best formulate an inquiry in an open communication Jage, you basically set out two options and ask if it is this or that.

klqv wrote:i'm not sure if you're addressing me or not :lol2:


I think Jage is a question bot and secretly building a new program which will blow all known new search engines away :lol2:
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Re: What is Joriki?

Postby klqv on Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:16 am

fukasetsu wrote:
klqv wrote:i'm not sure if you're addressing me or not :lol2:


I think Jage is a question bot and secretly building a new program which will blow all known new search engines away :lol2:

:lol2: i like him / her!


fight fire with fire... are you addressing me? what do you think about joriki? who sent you??
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Re: What is Joriki?

Postby fukasetsu on Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:21 am

You're a master in Joriki dude, I just typed a response regarding the "egocentrism topic" and when I was done it said "it doesn't exist"
Pretty anti Zen btw mr. wonderwheel, making a thread say it doesn't exist.
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The real is always with you; you need not wait to be what you are.”
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Re: What is Joriki?

Postby klqv on Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:38 am

in a bizarrely ironic / apt [no-one knows how to use these two words anymore!] move i deleted the thread on egocentrism. and then it said it didn't exist :-|

i'm egocentric; though i do often assume other people's views, it's never clear if this opposing view was just me all along. not a hindu thing!



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