Welcome admin !

It is currently Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:17 pm
Pathway:  Board index Zen Discussion Forum Beginners Questions Forum

Gautama Buddha as an old man

For beginners there is no such thing as a bad question. Feel free to ask any and all questions here. Member's responses should be made within the "beginner's mind" perspective.

Gautama Buddha as an old man

Postby genkaku on Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:17 pm

Has anyone ever seen a statue or other depiction of Gautama Buddha in old age?

It's understandable, perhaps, that someone like Jesus, who only lived until he was 33, should be depicted as youthful. But Gautama lived until he was 80 and a Google search on images didn't immediately show anything other than either the ascetic or the man with a face as smooth as freshly-ironed trousers.

Has anyone seen -- and can possibly show -- an old-age depiction?
genkaku
 
Posts: 3847
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:24 am

Re: Gautama Buddha as an old man

Postby partofit22 on Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:26 pm

partofit22
 
Posts: 4729
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:36 pm

Re: Gautama Buddha as an old man

Postby So-on Mann on Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:32 pm

Good point Genkaku! Even the Parinirvana statues have him looking young and hale.
Facing a precious mirror, form and reflection behold each other. You are not it, but in truth it is you.
User avatar
So-on Mann
 
Posts: 3926
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:43 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Re: Gautama Buddha as an old man

Postby genkaku on Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:03 pm

I guess I was thinking that the representations I have seen of Jesus vary according to culture (how he could be a pink man beats me, but taste is taste), but Buddhism uses "old age" as one of the teachers that put a fire under Gautama in the first place. In addition, Buddhism has had 2,500 years to shape what I think of as a grown-up's approach to spiritual endeavor ... more pointing to facts and less pointing at who's naughty and who's nice ... and therefore might actually want to make use in iconography of one of the excellent pointers.

Just another old fart, noodling.
genkaku
 
Posts: 3847
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:24 am

Re: Gautama Buddha as an old man

Postby Bodom on Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:55 pm

I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One....on emerging from seclusion in the late afternoon, sat warming his back in the western sun. Then Ven. Ananda went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down to the Blessed One, massaged the Blessed One's limbs with his hand and said, "It's amazing, lord. It's astounding, how the Blessed One's complexion is no longer so clear & bright; his limbs are flabby & wrinkled; his back, bent forward; there's a discernible change in his faculties — the faculty of the eye, the faculty of the ear, the faculty of the nose, the faculty of the tongue, the faculty of the body.""That's the way it is, Ananda. When young, one is subject to aging; when healthy, subject to illness; when alive, subject to death. The complexion is no longer so clear & bright; the limbs are flabby & wrinkled; the back, bent forward; there's a discernible change in the faculties.

This is the best image i could find.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
Last edited by Bodom on Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bodom
 
Posts: 55
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:40 pm

Re: Gautama Buddha as an old man

Postby genkaku on Thu Jan 28, 2010 6:08 pm

Thanks very much Bodom. That at least addresses the subject.

But as I say, I was wondering if a philosophy/religion/way that acknowledged such decay would not consider creating a depiction of one of its chief expositors in the realm of such decay. Perhaps the good news perceived by Buddhist followers would prefer to keep Buddhism's fact-based nature under wraps. Perhaps the smooth, serene and often-hermaphroditic visage helps to keep the dream alive.

Not a criticism. Just a curiosity.
genkaku
 
Posts: 3847
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:24 am

Re: Gautama Buddha as an old man

Postby FaDao on Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:17 pm

genkaku wrote:Thanks very much Bodom. That at least addresses the subject.

But as I say, I was wondering if a philosophy/religion/way that acknowledged such decay would not consider creating a depiction of one of its chief expositors in the realm of such decay. Perhaps the good news perceived by Buddhist followers would prefer to keep Buddhism's fact-based nature under wraps. Perhaps the smooth, serene and often-hermaphroditic visage helps to keep the dream alive.

Not a criticism. Just a curiosity.

An interesting question.

I am not aware of any depictions of the elder Gautama. There are many depictions of elder Ch'an and Zen masters -- but none of the elder Gautama that I am aware of.

On another side, I am not aware of any depictions of the elder Kwan Yin / Guanyin / Kannon either.

Thank you for the question.

Namo Amitofo
- Fa Dao -
FaDao
 
Posts: 279
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:37 pm

Re: Gautama Buddha as an old man

Postby genkaku on Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:37 pm

On another side, I am not aware of any depictions of the elder Kwan Yin / Guanyin / Kannon either.


Let's just stick to 'this' side for the moment.
genkaku
 
Posts: 3847
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:24 am

Re: Gautama Buddha as an old man

Postby shoey on Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:12 pm

when you're going through hell - keep going.
winston churchill
User avatar
shoey
 
Posts: 858
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:01 am

Re: Gautama Buddha as an old man

Postby shel on Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:14 pm

Google image search for "Old Buddha" turned up this little gem that can be had for 175 pounds (or was it Euros?) on Ebay.

Image

Strangely this cat also turned up. He's only 2 years old, which is about twenty in human years. Cute old puss though.

Image
If you've come here to help me you're wasting your time. But if you've come because your liberation is tied up with mine then let's work together. ~ Lilla Watson

The Hunger Project
User avatar
shel
 
Posts: 1559
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:06 am

Re: Gautama Buddha as an old man

Postby genkaku on Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:15 pm

shoey wrote:[url]http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgur ... jAec7cmvAw
[/url]
came across this ?


Shoey -- Thanks. Yes, I saw that too, but, since there was no identification I could find, I assumed by looking at it that it was not a representation of Gautama.

Praxis -- That looks like an old Buddha statue rather than a statue representing an old Gautama.
Last edited by genkaku on Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
genkaku
 
Posts: 3847
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:24 am

Re: Gautama Buddha as an old man

Postby shoey on Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:19 pm

genkaku wrote:
shoey wrote:http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://media3.dropshots.com/photos/444068/20080424/084357.jpg&imgrefurl=http://become-happy.blogspot.com/2008_04_01_archive.html&usg=__dcreBtRziMrAIxTDICCqMi_2fqY=&h=450&w=337&sz=35&hl=en&start=21&sig2=CcRFw-YRa9EI-LzA02q99g&tbnid=Z9CicNOUGR8OKM:&tbnh=127&tbnw=95&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbuddha%2Bold%2Bage%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN%26start%3D20&ei=SPxhS83eO4m6jAec7cmvAw

came across this ?


Yes, I saw that too, but, since there was no identification I could find, I assumed by looking at it that it was not a representation of Gautama.



awe , sorry - how should he look ? :)

he he
when you're going through hell - keep going.
winston churchill
User avatar
shoey
 
Posts: 858
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:01 am

Re: Gautama Buddha as an old man

Postby Jok_Hae on Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:20 pm

Not to be a pick, but could that be Siddhartha Gautama's ascetic appearance. I have seen images of him during his ascetic period that looks similar (sunken eyes, etc.) But it does seem to look more like old age, I suppose. Just wondering.

Keith
You make, you get

New Haven Zen Center
User avatar
Jok_Hae
 
Posts: 4082
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:53 am
Location: CT, USA

Re: Gautama Buddha as an old man

Postby genkaku on Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:22 pm

shoey wrote:
genkaku wrote:
shoey wrote:http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://media3.dropshots.com/photos/444068/20080424/084357.jpg&imgrefurl=http://become-happy.blogspot.com/2008_04_01_archive.html&usg=__dcreBtRziMrAIxTDICCqMi_2fqY=&h=450&w=337&sz=35&hl=en&start=21&sig2=CcRFw-YRa9EI-LzA02q99g&tbnid=Z9CicNOUGR8OKM:&tbnh=127&tbnw=95&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbuddha%2Bold%2Bage%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DN%26start%3D20&ei=SPxhS83eO4m6jAec7cmvAw

came across this ?


Yes, I saw that too, but, since there was no identification I could find, I assumed by looking at it that it was not a representation of Gautama.



awe , sorry - how should he look ? :)

he he


Yes, I know, he should look just like you. :)

But anatomically speaking, the chin and facial structure struck me as wrong for an Indian fellow.
genkaku
 
Posts: 3847
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:24 am

Re: Gautama Buddha as an old man

Postby shoey on Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:30 pm

yes,he does seem a little bodhidhamesque.ish


interesting obervation you make regards no pics of Gautama in old age.
maybe the influence of indian culture ?
when you're going through hell - keep going.
winston churchill
User avatar
shoey
 
Posts: 858
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:01 am

Re: Gautama Buddha as an old man

Postby genkaku on Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:41 pm

shoey wrote:yes,he does seem a little bodhidhamesque.ish


interesting obervation you make regards no pics of Gautama in old age.
maybe the influence of indian culture ?


Shoey -- I don't quite understand? Did the Indians have something against pictorial representations ... as Islam has a prohibition on depictions of Mohammad as I understand it? Certainly there are plenty of India statues of Gautama, no? And I imagine there would be drawings/paintings as well. What cultural aspect are you referring to ... or am I just being dense again?
genkaku
 
Posts: 3847
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:24 am

Re: Gautama Buddha as an old man

Postby shoey on Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:54 pm

sorry genkaku,it was just a suggestion to your question,Ive no idea about the causes and conditions.
:)
when you're going through hell - keep going.
winston churchill
User avatar
shoey
 
Posts: 858
Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:01 am

Re: Gautama Buddha as an old man

Postby shel on Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:56 pm

Definite lack of images for Mohammad online compared Gautama. Maybe that's an expression of the same sort of thing? Not depicting weakness or frailty.
If you've come here to help me you're wasting your time. But if you've come because your liberation is tied up with mine then let's work together. ~ Lilla Watson

The Hunger Project
User avatar
shel
 
Posts: 1559
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:06 am

Re: Gautama Buddha as an old man

Postby OldDirtyCracker on Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:16 am

I thought the statues of Buddha lying on his side with his head on his hand depicted him just before death. I'm guessing it's just a matter of the artistic technique not being there. Interesting to think about.
OldDirtyCracker
 
Posts: 160
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:28 pm

Re: Gautama Buddha as an old man

Postby doormat on Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:19 am

genkaku wrote:
shoey wrote:[url]http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgur ... jAec7cmvAw
[/url]
came across this ?


Shoey -- Thanks. Yes, I saw that too, but, since there was no identification I could find, I assumed by looking at it that it was not a representation of Gautama.




The difficulty with statues is, either they'll be stylized (not very realistic) or, if someone wants a realistic looking statue, someone has to pose for a picture or sit for it. That can be the artist him/her self, the guy next door - just about anybody. In the case of Gautama, it probably wasn't him sitting for a statue. So, what do you have? An artist's rendition of what he thought an old Gautama might have looked like based on a real person who posed for the statue. Is that Gautama? The artist might have wanted you to think so, just as the artist who makes a highly stylized statue of Buddha wants you to think of his/her statue as Buddha. We are probably more criticle of the one at the above link because it is a realistic statue - we're looking for accurate detail, since the sculpture is more accurately dipicting a real person. But that sort of statue for Gautama wont exist. It's probably just a statue of an old monk - is that Buddha enough for you?
...my teaching consists in the cessation of sufferings arising from the discrimination of the triple world; in the cessation of ignorance, desire, deed, and causality;...an objective world, like a vision, is the manifestation of Mind itself.-Lankavatara
doormat
 
Posts: 730
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:11 pm

Next

Return to Beginners Questions Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

 
RocketTheme Joomla Templates

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 157 on Mon Sep 19, 2016 8:44 am

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest