Welcome admin !

It is currently Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:50 pm
Pathway:  Board index Welcome to Zen Forum International Feedback & Support

Ways of Reviving ZFI as a Zen Buddhist Forum

For constructive feedback and support questions concerning ZFI.

Re: Ways of Reviving ZFI as a Zen Buddhist Forum

Postby Dan74 on Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:09 pm

flutemaker wrote:
Dan74 wrote:I suggest that we need an active Admin. Somebody who has done it in the past would be ideal, like Anders, if he is available. Alternatively it could be an idea for active teachers like Meido, Guo Gu and Judy Roitman to ask their senior students if they are prepared to take on ZFI Administration.

That was my thought exactly to call here their senior students.

Much depends, however, on how you would like to settle things straight: (1) technically, (2) formally, or (3) ethically? Or entirely -- "all inclusive"?

If technically, to M. (who, though verbally resigned, but if the resignation has not yet been accepted back, still holds the 3 powers in his hands, namely, ZFI tech admin permission {see server roles/groups link below on this site web pages under the 'tech admin' color ***}, JumpLine Admin permission, and GoDaddy Admin permission) you send a petition asking to create a secondary JumpLine Admin login, from where ZFI forum roles, including founders, admins, tech admins, and mods, you set up at your will, easily, with the help of the MySQL control panel, instructions to which, in grandmotherly way compiled, are freely available online.

If formally, to G. you send a petition asking to approve or reject the above described way of action.

If ethically, this is beyond my understanding as to how and where you start.

_______________
*** memberlist.php?mode=group&g=10


My sense of Michael is that he's want to do things ethically, but he can speak for himself. That doesn't imply inaction, however. We have to hear what Carol and Gregory see as the way forward first, I think. And if they are not contactable, then it is Michael's responsibility to take action, IMO.

_/|\_
Last edited by Dan74 on Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Dan74
 
Posts: 2669
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:26 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Ways of Reviving ZFI as a Zen Buddhist Forum

Postby Linda Anderson on Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:13 pm

As I understand it, members of this forum took full responsibility for moderation and for the payment of renewal fees.... there was discussion about zfi continuing, or not, and ppl stepped forward. I thought that Carol and Gregory made it clear that they are no longer responsible. So, imo, no one abandoned ship.
Not last night,
not this morning;
Melon flowers bloomed.
~ Bassho
User avatar
Linda Anderson
 
Posts: 3673
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:14 pm
Location: Forestville, CA

Re: Ways of Reviving ZFI as a Zen Buddhist Forum

Postby Jok_Hae on Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:39 am

Linda Anderson wrote:As I understand it, members of this forum took full responsibility for moderation and for the payment of renewal fees.... there was discussion about zfi continuing, or not, and ppl stepped forward. I thought that Carol and Gregory made it clear that they are no longer responsible. So, imo, no one abandoned ship.


This is what I thought had happened. To be honest, I think the forum will noodle along just fine. I am happy to contribute financially to keep the ball in the air. I tried to last time, but the funds were raised.

regards,
Keith
You make, you get

New Haven Zen Center
User avatar
Jok_Hae
 
Posts: 4082
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:53 am
Location: CT, USA

Re: Ways of Reviving ZFI as a Zen Buddhist Forum

Postby Spike on Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:49 am

Michaeljc wrote:I will now lay it all on the table

Given the privileges structure of this forum it is Gregory who is at the controls. As long as he is not prepared to enter discussions nothing can change. "Privilege" means who can push which button in the system.


Dan74 wrote:We have to hear what Carol and Gregory see as the way forward first, I think.


Michaeljc wrote:Gregory and Carol were the "Founders". They cannot be removed by any party but can remove any other party, therefore holding ultimate veto.


Michaeljc wrote:There is one more ultimate power: the "owner" who is the one who signed the cheque for annual service fees. This happens to be me. The only extreme action I can take is to close the site down by cancelling it at any time. Short of an event such as the site becoming politically extreme this is something I would never do.


Linda Anderson wrote:As I understand it, members of this forum took full responsibility for moderation and for the payment of renewal fees....


Michaeljc wrote:I did have considerable privileges on first getting involved in the management structure but decided to surrender these. Come January I will be sending Gregory the passwords to renew subscription. Going on the lead up to the last subscription he may decide to let it die.


So: Gregory is in charge. Some think we need to hear from him. However, he has not been active in replying to some messages. The current owner will not be paying for zfi to continue, and has already relinquished his ownership powers, other than the ability to cancel the site, so come January the site will otherwise fold unless someone intervenes, ie., Gregory or a suitable new owner. Present owner speculates that Gregory may "let it die".
Ripple in still water
When there is no pebble tossed
Nor wind to blow --R.H.
User avatar
Spike
 
Posts: 218
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:15 pm

Re: Ways of Reviving ZFI as a Zen Buddhist Forum

Postby fukasetsu on Sat Jul 15, 2017 2:16 am

Spike wrote:Of course, that torrent site didn't do anything illegal because it didn't contain copyrighted material like a lot of other torrent sites which use a VPN to avoid detection & bypass anti-piracy/site blocking?


Sure it did, it was a private tracker set up to share our love for hockey all across the world, and mainly set up for people outside of the US (including soldiers stationed abroad) who had no access to NHL games, all networks have this illegal to reproduce broadcast thingy on their feeds. But we saw no harm into sharing tv sports games for ppl who can't access those channels (or do) but the site died because of legal threats.

I download illegal on a regular basis too btw (us tv shows, sports etc) and I don't use VPN, not necessary if you're a dutchy.
Mijn Oude Vriend uit de woestijn begrijpt geen Nederlands. <3
User avatar
fukasetsu
 
Posts: 6590
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:17 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Ways of Reviving ZFI as a Zen Buddhist Forum

Postby fukasetsu on Sat Jul 15, 2017 2:20 am

Michaeljc wrote:I also reverted to being a basic member voluntarily, deciding not to be involved in admin or moderating. I feel that Doug is doing a fine job in his post and that taking everything into consideration the forum is doing OK


Doug is doing great but he needs administrative controls the same as an owner has (make him co-owner or something)
This is just getting beyond silly that we're still discussing this, I doubt any old or current owner would want this forum to die,
I wouldn't expect any selfishness like that since many members have openly said this place in important for them for various reasons.
Mijn Oude Vriend uit de woestijn begrijpt geen Nederlands. <3
User avatar
fukasetsu
 
Posts: 6590
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:17 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Ways of Reviving ZFI as a Zen Buddhist Forum

Postby jundo on Sat Jul 15, 2017 4:16 am

And please give the new Pan-Zen Buddhist Forum I am sponsoring a chance, see if I can hit on a sound recipe and tone. (Working Title: "Forum Is Just Emptiness" :PP: ).

Let us let varied flowers grow and see what takes root and blossoms! There is much room in the fertile soil of this Boundless Universe. Let all the beautiful buds grow side by side and nurture each other. ZFI should thrive as ZFI too.

Gassho, Jundo

SatToday
Founder Treeleaf Zendo, Japan. Member SZBA. Treeleaf is an online Sangha for those unable to commute to a Sangha, w/ netcast Zazen, interaction with other practitioners and teachers & all activities of a Soto Sangha, fully online without charge (http://www.treeleaf.org) Nishijima/Niwa
User avatar
jundo
Teacher
 
Posts: 262
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:47 am

Re: Ways of Reviving ZFI as a Zen Buddhist Forum

Postby Spike on Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:07 am

Well, that was pretty shameless, not to mention irrelevant.
Ripple in still water
When there is no pebble tossed
Nor wind to blow --R.H.
User avatar
Spike
 
Posts: 218
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:15 pm

Re: Ways of Reviving ZFI as a Zen Buddhist Forum

Postby jundo on Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:15 am

Spike wrote:Well, that was pretty shameless, not to mention irrelevant.


Hi,

Do you mean what I wrote?? I am not sure why. Let us support each other and all efforts, thus to help this Zen world mutually grow and thrive. I want to help ZFI be ZFI.

Gassho Jundo
Founder Treeleaf Zendo, Japan. Member SZBA. Treeleaf is an online Sangha for those unable to commute to a Sangha, w/ netcast Zazen, interaction with other practitioners and teachers & all activities of a Soto Sangha, fully online without charge (http://www.treeleaf.org) Nishijima/Niwa
User avatar
jundo
Teacher
 
Posts: 262
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:47 am

Re: Ways of Reviving ZFI as a Zen Buddhist Forum

Postby flutemaker on Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:13 pm

Linda Anderson wrote:...I thought that Carol and Gregory made it clear that they are no longer responsible...


Here is a collection of excerpts possibly clarifying (or not) your thought.

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=11678&p=185870#p185870
Carol wrote:... so it's definitely time for Gregory and me to turn this forum over to someone else who will take responsibility for a positive environment ...


viewtopic.php?f=4&t=11695&p=185904#p185904
Carol wrote:... ZFI also needs new owners. I want to transfer the domain name and the web hosting to someone else.

The web hosting is with jumpline and the annual renewal in the amount of $98.72 is due on February first. So let me know beforehand who wants to takeover. ...


viewtopic.php?f=4&t=11695&p=185897#p185897
Carol wrote:... I will not be renewing the web hosting on February 1st. So, someone or some group will need to step forward with the money before then ...
flutemaker
 
Posts: 164
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:54 pm

Re: Ways of Reviving ZFI as a Zen Buddhist Forum

Postby Dan74 on Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:31 pm

Interesting stuff.

What remains is that for whatever reason, whoever is to blame or not, the Forum is without an active Admin.

What is to be done about that?

_/|\_
User avatar
Dan74
 
Posts: 2669
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:26 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Ways of Reviving ZFI as a Zen Buddhist Forum

Postby partofit22 on Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:39 pm

If nothing is to be changed, no active Admin is needed- There's one active Mod which is all that is necessary at the moment -- and better than zero- There's been much improvement with one Mod opposed to zero Mods- Wouldn't you (general) agree? Two Mods might be more than necessary -- but having another as a back-up, someone willing to step in until, isn't a bad idea-
partofit22
 
Posts: 4611
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:36 pm

Re: Ways of Reviving ZFI as a Zen Buddhist Forum

Postby flutemaker on Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:47 pm

Dan74 wrote:Interesting stuff.

What remains is that for whatever reason, whoever is to blame or not, the Forum is without an active Admin.

What is to be done about that?

_/|\_

I would vote: To Invite a senior student of Meido to supervise the Rinzai section, of Guo Gu to supervise Chinese Buddhism section -- to ensure that not the formal forum structure is fixed, and is primary, but a living person(s) actively involved dictate how the forum is currently structured, according to their requirements. Two living active sections only are better than 101 formal sub-forums. As soon as other active authoritative persons are willing to supervise other sections, create them. Forward Administrative power to these people, by initiating forum roles assignment through JumpLine MySQL tool -- by inquiring with the current "de facto" "owner" (M.) to assist in this matter.
flutemaker
 
Posts: 164
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:54 pm

Re: Ways of Reviving ZFI as a Zen Buddhist Forum

Postby flutemaker on Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:51 pm

partofit22 wrote:If nothing is to be changed, no active Admin is needed

Functioning phpBB board absolutely needs an active Admin.
flutemaker
 
Posts: 164
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:54 pm

Re: Ways of Reviving ZFI as a Zen Buddhist Forum

Postby partofit22 on Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:17 am

flutemaker wrote:
partofit22 wrote:If nothing is to be changed, no active Admin is needed

Functioning phpBB board absolutely needs an active Admin.


Before Michael became, what he became, when was the last time there was any Admin activity prior to him offering to do what he did? If no changes are being made, what role does the Admin play? (I ask for those of us (including myself) who don't understand the technical parts of this conversation/thread) Thank you-
partofit22
 
Posts: 4611
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:36 pm

Re: Ways of Reviving ZFI as a Zen Buddhist Forum

Postby Spike on Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:25 am

partofit22 wrote: what role does the Admin play?


From FAQ:

What are Administrators?
Administrators are members assigned with the highest level of control over the entire board. These members can control all facets of board operation, including setting permissions, banning users, creating usergroups or moderators, etc., dependent upon the board founder and what permissions he or she has given the other administrators. They may also have full moderator capabilities in all forums, depending on the settings put forth by the board founder.

What are Moderators?
Moderators are individuals (or groups of individuals) who look after the forums from day to day. They have the authority to edit or delete posts and lock, unlock, move, delete and split topics in the forum they moderate. Generally, moderators are present to prevent users from going off-topic or posting abusive or offensive material.
Ripple in still water
When there is no pebble tossed
Nor wind to blow --R.H.
User avatar
Spike
 
Posts: 218
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:15 pm

Re: Ways of Reviving ZFI as a Zen Buddhist Forum

Postby bokki on Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:02 am

LOL flutemaker,wow the links u provide say all i want 2 say
l,look look look at the beauty u ppl r
look look look at posts carol gg and all provided
look at u diamonds
look at diamonds
zfi is not going anywhere
if imm asked it will b here 4 a few years more 4 sure
i said can help
and this is y
zfi rocks
User avatar
bokki
 
Posts: 302
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2016 10:06 pm

Re: Ways of Reviving ZFI as a Zen Buddhist Forum

Postby flutemaker on Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:51 pm

partofit22 wrote:
flutemaker wrote:
partofit22 wrote:If nothing is to be changed, no active Admin is needed

Functioning phpBB board absolutely needs an active Admin.


Before Michael became, what he became, when was the last time there was any Admin activity prior to him offering to do what he did? If no changes are being made, what role does the Admin play? (I ask for those of us (including myself) who don't understand the technical parts of this conversation/thread) Thank you-

Review and activate new user registrations on a daily basis.

Answer mail directed at Administration regarding any sort of technical problems. For example being unable to recover lost password.

Immediately react on constructive feedback from users requiring rearranging the forum structure.

Hell, just BE HERE!..

P, there are too many reasons to list..

On a aside note, well I once sold a site I have been developing for 15 years. Can I say that I invested my soul in it? Yes. Did the buyer promised to maintain it properly? Yes. Did he follow what he promised? No. But I have no regrets regardless. If I no longer want to properly maintain the site I won't sit on it just for the sake of my feeling that no one would care about it rightly. Am I wrong?.. Dan, just make an offer to purchase the site for one dollar to the de facto owner and then set it straight as you see fit. I can post more quotes confirming the fact that the official ownership is with M. with no claims otherwise.
flutemaker
 
Posts: 164
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:54 pm

Re: Ways of Reviving ZFI as a Zen Buddhist Forum

Postby Dan74 on Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:57 pm

Hi FM,

Thank you for your vote of confidence, and I'd love to help, but even if people (apart from your good self) wanted me for this role and Carol & Gregory trusted me with it (and these are big 'ifs'), I am just too flat out now (moved countries, trying to work and start studies/learn the language, etc etc) to do it properly. I'd be happy to support the right person who takes it on though. And I hope you do too!

And yes, I think for a Forum to run well, an Admin has to be present. There are many suggestions on this thread that a Mod cannot implement, even if he had wanted to. Sure there are many positives about the Forum as is and those who still participate obviously think so (otherwise they wouldn't be here) but it is a tiny little place compared to what it used to be. It can be good to ask 'why' and whether it could serve more people.

To me, the question remains - what do we do? I think that somehow, we should get in contact with Carol and Gregory and find out what their plans are. Once we know the answer to that, we can think of how to proceed further.


_/|\_

flutemaker wrote:
partofit22 wrote:
flutemaker wrote:
partofit22 wrote:If nothing is to be changed, no active Admin is needed

Functioning phpBB board absolutely needs an active Admin.


Before Michael became, what he became, when was the last time there was any Admin activity prior to him offering to do what he did? If no changes are being made, what role does the Admin play? (I ask for those of us (including myself) who don't understand the technical parts of this conversation/thread) Thank you-

Review and activate new user registrations on a daily basis.

Answer mail directed at Administration regarding any sort of technical problems. For example being unable to recover lost password.

Immediately react on constructive feedback from users requiring rearranging the forum structure.

Hell, just BE HERE!..

P, there are too many reasons to list..

On a aside note, well I once sold a site I have been developing for 15 years. Can I say that I invested my soul in it? Yes. Did the buyer promised to maintain it properly? Yes. Did he follow what he promised? No. But I have no regrets regardless. If I no longer want to properly maintain the site I won't sit on it just for the sake of my feeling that no one would care about it rightly. Am I wrong?.. Dan, just make an offer to purchase the site for one dollar to the de facto owner and then set it straight as you see fit. I can post more quotes confirming the fact that the official ownership is with M. with no claims otherwise.
User avatar
Dan74
 
Posts: 2669
Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:26 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Ways of Reviving ZFI as a Zen Buddhist Forum

Postby partofit22 on Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:09 am

flutemaker wrote:
partofit22 wrote:
flutemaker wrote:
partofit22 wrote:If nothing is to be changed, no active Admin is needed

Functioning phpBB board absolutely needs an active Admin.


Before Michael became, what he became, when was the last time there was any Admin activity prior to him offering to do what he did? If no changes are being made, what role does the Admin play? (I ask for those of us (including myself) who don't understand the technical parts of this conversation/thread) Thank you-

Review and activate new user registrations on a daily basis.

Answer mail directed at Administration regarding any sort of technical problems. For example being unable to recover lost password.

Immediately react on constructive feedback from users requiring rearranging the forum structure.

Hell, just BE HERE!..

P, there are too many reasons to list..

On a aside note, well I once sold a site I have been developing for 15 years. Can I say that I invested my soul in it? Yes. Did the buyer promised to maintain it properly? Yes. Did he follow what he promised? No. But I have no regrets regardless. If I no longer want to properly maintain the site I won't sit on it just for the sake of my feeling that no one would care about it rightly. Am I wrong?.. Dan, just make an offer to purchase the site for one dollar to the de facto owner and then set it straight as you see fit. I can post more quotes confirming the fact that the official ownership is with M. with no claims otherwise.


http://www.zenforuminternational.org//viewtopic.php?f=38&t=11722&start=20#p186480

Carol wrote:This forum has been almost entirely without moderation or administrative action for more than a year. The fact that it was "foundering" could possibly be at least in part due to that lack of "watchful eye" over things. There was no one dealing with hostilities when they arose, or inappropriate postings.

I don't know if that was the full reason for the "foundering" or even the main reason. But I do think it is an indication that the forum is less likely to thrive without some kind of moderation of tone and quality.

As for who "owns" the posts here. I don't think anyone does. They're in the public domain. The yahoo and google bots crawl all over the forum and it's not possible to block them, so far as I know. So, if you post it here, it has been recorded and saved somewhere beyond your control and beyond the administration's control.

I honestly don't care if people want to delete their posts. Some believe it can turn discussions to nonsense. That's true. But I'm not sure that matters all that much.

I do believe the administration MUST retain the right to delete any offensive posts, and to that extent, the posts do not "belong" to the poster.

FYI, in the law, when someone sends a letter, the letter belongs to the recipient, not the sender. This has been litigated many times, especially when there are estates of dead people involved in getting permission for publication. So, the precedent is there by analogy that the forum is the "recipient" of the post, and therefore the owner.

I'm not sure where the law stands now on liability. If there is slanderous material posted here, I believe it is the responsibility of the forum owner to remove it. There may be some liability to the forum owner if it is not removed.


Thank you for your thoughtful response, flutemaker- The part that I underlined, made bold, and italicized above ^^^ was the point, I think, I was making an effort to express- Which was that there was next to nothing happening (admin wise) and the forum managed to survive -- or thrive, depending on how you look at it, for better or for worse, in sickness in health, until ..

I'm certainly not saying it's best without Admin, simply stating that there has been very little Admin fiddling- And yet ..
partofit22
 
Posts: 4611
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:36 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Feedback & Support

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

 
RocketTheme Joomla Templates

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 157 on Mon Sep 19, 2016 8:44 am

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest