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the four noble truths, sort of

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the four noble truths, sort of

Postby genkaku on Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:45 pm

THERE IS SUFFERING
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THERE IS A CAUSE OF SUFFERING
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THERE IS AN END TO SUFFERING
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THERE IS A WAY TO END SUFFERING

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Just spitballing ... make up your own. :)
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Re: the four noble truths, sort of

Postby Drolma on Thu Apr 16, 2009 8:37 am

There is suffering

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There is a cause of suffering

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There is an end to suffering

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Noble Eightfold Path

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Re: the four noble truths, sort of

Postby tiltbillings on Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:27 am

the four noble truths, sort of
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Now, on account of what, was it said that the Four Noble Truths are the Dhamma taught by me? Based on the six elements there is descent into the womb. Such descent taking place, there is name-and-form. ... This is suffering .... AN 3 61
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Re: the four noble truths, sort of

Postby Shonin on Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:36 pm

Well done. One small criticism: the end to suffering in all these pictures more like an idealised version of reality. Having said that, I don't think its easy to illustrate.
The Victorious Ones have announced that emptiness is the relinquishing of all views. Those who are possessed of the view of emptiness are said to be incorrigible.
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Re: the four noble truths, sort of

Postby shel on Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:09 am

Image

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If you've come here to help me you're wasting your time. But if you've come because your liberation is tied up with mine then let's work together. ~ Lilla Watson

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Re: the four noble truths, sort of

Postby shoey on Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:17 am

hi shonin
"the end to suffering in all these pictures more like an idealised version of reality."

no shit sherlock ! :PP:

of course they are !!! - they are pictures !
when you're going through hell - keep going.
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Re: the four noble truths, sort of

Postby Shonin on Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:56 am

shoey wrote:of course they are !!! - they are pictures !


Yes - there is that. But I think you misunderstood me. All of the 4 Noble Truths are illustrated with pictures (that's what this thread is about right) and in that sense these are idealised versions of reality of course. Which is fine and obviously true.

What I meant was something different. The Third Noble Truth (the end of suffering) is illustrated here in almost all cases as a sort of 'perfect' or 'heavenly' world. This might just be due to the difficulty of representation, however as I see it this is a false view of the end of suffering. In fact, suffering is nothing other than this tendency to wish for things to be other than they are - expressed as desire, aversion, frustration, idealism etc. The end of suffering (as I see it) is not the fulfillment (at long last) of all our desires in some heavenly realm, but is the dropping away of the craving for things to be anything other than exactly how they are - with all it's imperfections, ugliness and excretia included.

But I'm sure there are many grandmothers here that I'm teaching to suck eggs.
The Victorious Ones have announced that emptiness is the relinquishing of all views. Those who are possessed of the view of emptiness are said to be incorrigible.
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Re: the four noble truths, sort of

Postby genkaku on Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:17 pm

no shit sherlock ! :PP:


Shoey, you made my day!
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Re: the four noble truths, sort of

Postby shoey on Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:28 pm

hi shonin
"In fact, suffering is nothing other than this tendency to wish for things to be other than they are - expressed as desire, aversion, frustration, idealism etc."

yes totally agree,clearly put.

theres an old scottish saying - "hell mend ye"
our own hell/suffering is our teacher.

helluva teacher huh ?

namaste
when you're going through hell - keep going.
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Re: the four noble truths, sort of

Postby Luzdelaluna on Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:33 pm

Image

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The ultimate Truth is beyond words. Doctrines are words. They’re not the Way. The Way is wordless. Words are illusions. Freeing oneself from words is liberation.
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Re: the four noble truths, sort of

Postby Shonin on Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:37 pm

shoey wrote:theres an old scottish saying - "hell mend ye"
our own hell/suffering is our teacher.

helluva teacher huh ?


Yeah - agreed. :)

_/\_
The Victorious Ones have announced that emptiness is the relinquishing of all views. Those who are possessed of the view of emptiness are said to be incorrigible.
- Nagarjuna
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